be nice to me when I'm cranky -- and when I'm not!

[serene]

In response to a friend's post that advised people not to be mean to zir
while zie's out of coping energy, I wrote the following:

Is there ever a time when it IS okay to argue with a "you're
wrong, you idiot" tone? I mean, this PSA shouldn't be necessary at any
time, I'm thinking. People should not have to gauge my mood to tell if
it's an okay time to be an asshole to me. They should just assume it's
never an okay time to be an asshole to me.

The flipside of this is that I don't expect people to take extraordinary
measures to take my mood into account when they deal with me. Ditto my
food issues, hot buttons, or childhood trauma. Those things are my things,
and my responsibility, and I am in charge of protecting myself around them
in a civil fashion.

To use a personal example, I really really hate being surprised
from behind. If you surprise me from behind, I'm likely to react with
shock and displeasure, but I'm not going to be angry with you -- there was
likely no way for you to know that it's a thing with me[1] , and even if
you already knew it, it's unreasonable for me to expect that any but my
closest loved ones would keep that information filed away in their heads.
If you do it several times after being told about it, that's another
thing, but that rarely happens, and when it has, I've felt fine about
being really blunt about how not-okay it is.

[Edit: This is not solely in response to this friend's post -- it's been
building up for a while in the context of seeing those care-and-feeding
guides that people often put up in their LJs. It's hard for me to read those
and not feel like the person is putting the burden of their idiosyncracies
on me. I don't assume that's the intent, but it's how it often feels to me,
and I wanted to make it clear that I don't hold anyone else responsible
for my unique set of preferences and triggers, within the boundaries
of a basic level of courtesy, which I guess for me comes down to "It's
clear to me that they're not intending insult, and not doing anything I
consider to be blatantly rude." I know that's nebulous, but there you
have it.]


[1] (the person who raped me surprised me from behind)

Comments

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

i might actually hit somebody who surprises me from behind, though by the time i make contact i will have bled off most of the power.

as to being an asshole -- was that really what the person wanted to prevent happening? i don't expect that any of my friends will be an asshole to me, and i wouldn't think i need to warn them of that. but sometimes when i am out of coping energy, certain behaviours will make me want to throttle the person -- lecturing (in a fannish manner), while usually welcome, is one of those, as is stuff like "cheer up, it could be worse" -- "cheer up" is never welcome, but i am usually quite ok with thinking of situations that could be worse, just not when i am really down.

[stonebender.livejournal.com]

i might actually hit somebody who surprises me from behind, though by the time i make contact i will have bled off most of the power.

Seems like a reasonable response to me. If were to attempt to surprise somebody from behind (not that I would), getting smacked is my look out in my opinion.

[calebbullen.livejournal.com]

Some people you do have to be an asshole to or they won't bend to your will. Some folks have such a pack mentality that you have to be rude to get past whatever strange filters they have.

Also some people are just way too damned sensitive. Like when I worked in a bank in Chicago and we had to deal with New Yorkers suddenly, many people felt that the New Yorkers were being rude and prickish when they weren't, they were just speaking more quickly and directly than your average Chicagoan would. Likewise, when you speak at natural Chicagoan speed and directness to most Floridians, they think you're being rude when you're just speaking normal Chicagoan.

Personally, I just try to roll with whatever is appropriate to the situation and unless someone actually is intending to be an ass, try to treat them as if they weren't coming off as one to me. It doesn't always work but if we all try to meet the other person halfway and not be too sensitive about how we're being treated while being sensitive about how the other would prefer to be treated, things'll mostly work out.

That said, I do have a co-worker that I have to be rude to or he won't act. If you're nice and pleasant, he just thinks it's nice and pleasant time and not work time. And he's way above me in the corporate ladder so it's not like I'm putting any fear into him, he just wont motivate from nicety when it comes to work.

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

Your co-worker and I would be at a stalemate, because being rude to people isn't in my bag of tricks when dealing with co-workers, so I would probably just be frustrated.

[calebbullen.livejournal.com]

yeah, he really frustrates a lot of people. Actually, frustrates is putting it really mildly. He's one of those people who you really have to continually remind yourself, he's not trying to piss you off intentionally, he just can't help it. Mind you, he's a nice guy and tries to help, he's just uh... kind of a nut and strangely distractable.

[firecat]

within the boundaries of a basic level of courtesy

I guess it all turns on defining just what this is. I mean, I think it's basic courtesy not to "surprise someone from behind" unless expressly given permission at some point.

As for the care and feeding guides, your post made me stop and think about what I think about them. I guess I think of them as personal musings. I can't remember if I've posted one or not, but I've tried to fill one out from time to time, just because it's an interesting exercise to me to try to figure out what my personal preferences are and how to describe them.

[flippac.livejournal.com]

Most of the care and feeding guides I've seen've been from people who I could conceivably actually have to care for for half an hour or so, at which point it becomes partly "here's information you might need at a later date when I might not be able to offer it, should you want or need it". At that point I do appreciate having had a chance to see the info.

[redbird]

I think that depends in part on what "surprise someone from behind" means: many people consider it acceptable to walk up and tap someone on the shoulder, if the only way to approach is from behind (as in some workspace arrangements), and some might consider being addressed, even politely, from behind and nearby problematic. (OK, two inches is too close--but there's significant variation in how far away is far enough.)

And the person who got my attention by pulling on my braid was, I think, genuinely surprised when I spun around and shouted "Never do that again!" at him. I don't know whether he successfully generalized the concept, but he damned well apologized and seemed to mean it. (He had short hair, and as far as I know had always had short hair.)

[nolly.livejournal.com]

I know that I rapidly become irrational when I need food, especially when I'm physically tired. I've gotten pretty good at having a plan for dealing with this in ways that don't have much impact on other people. Occasionally, factors beyond my control throw a monkey wrench into those plans, and the cranky spills. If I am not exhibiting basic courtesy, I don't feel I have a right to expect it from others. However, in this situation, rudely ignoring me is going to be rather less exacerbating than rudely arguing with me, which is part of what I felt needed to be said -- whether it's heard or not. Handing me food or otherwise assisting in acquisition of food is likely to be helpful, but I don't actually expect that from anyone -- it's bonus if it happens, but ultimately, it's self-care and self-responsibility.

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I totally agree with you, and in thinking about this issue, I have to say that I think letting one's friends know about those kinds of issues IS self-care, and any feelings I have that they are putting the onus on me just by letting me know their stuff are irrational. I am not always good at telling the difference between someone sharing info with me, and someone making me responsible for that info. I think that it's a good thing for my friends to let me know what I can do to help them. I just hope they'll forgive me if I forget in times of crisis.

[saluqi.livejournal.com]

The Bear and I have a few ongoing issues with hearing and delivering a "you're wrong, you arsehole" tone under pressure. I am much more likely to hear something as "you idiot", and therefore as rude, if I'm not coping very well. If I am fine, I'm more likely to read it as direct information and discard the fact that the Bear often uses imperative statements.

An example: when we're out walking the dogs, she'll say "do this" instead of "I would do this right now" or "have you considered doing this?". Whenever we discuss it, she says that it's never intended as "you idiot" and I believe her - mostly she does it that way because timing is very important to training dogs. Of course, it's lesson for her in adult education when I respond to "make Lucy sit" with "why?" or "I'm working on something else right now".

However, I have also noticed that when she is not coping well, she's much more likely to use the "do this!" tone in a frustrated way, which comes over as arseholic, even tho' she's just not coping and I know she cares about not hurting my feelings.

The upshot of all this is an agreement that moods aren't an excuse. So I will remind her to back off if she's getting frustrated, and I try to remind myself not to be too inflexible when I'm on a thin set of resources.

[tracytreefrog.livejournal.com]

Believe it or not I have more than once elbowed someone who surprised me from behind, Once it was my Fiance! Not sure why I react that way but I do. And it was effective they didn't do it again.