Personal observation...

[serene]

...that is, observation about me, personally.

In person, people have frequently told me that I am so personable that I can tell someone to fuck themselves and have them go away smiling. I have been told that I make people feel liked and can disagree with them without being disagreeable. Some people disagree, of course, including one of my partners, but I've gotten it enough that I trust that it's at least a common perception, if not the majority one.

Online[1], however, the general perception of me tends to be that I'm mean, needlessly blunt, cruel, and uncaring. The thing is, in my head, my posts feel to me to be in the same tone as my in-person interactions, so clearly my demeanor/humor/goodwill do not translate especially well to text.

Good to know.

[1] In Usenet and discussion-based email lists

Comments

[nex0s.livejournal.com]

Weird. Reading this I thought it was someone else on my flist! I guess zie fits this description.

I don't find this to be true, however. I find you, actually, more imposing in person than text! I think this is because you kind of tower above me :)

Ultimately, I think you are very warm every where you go.

Some people find clear, concise, thinking and writing to be threatening.

N.

[prizmdonna.livejournal.com]

Seeing as, other than one brief in person sightings, I only know you on LJ, I completely disagree with the notion that you come across as mean, cruel and uncaring. I don't see that AT ALL. Blunt? Perhaps. But I tend to view that more as direct, which I find to be a positive quality.

- donna

[rsc.livejournal.com]

clearly my demeanor/humor/goodwill do not translate especially well to text.


Hardly anyone's do. That siad, I can't imagine where this "general perception" is coming from, and I wonder just how general it is.

[kalmn.livejournal.com]

your posts read to me like you sound in person. however, i've met you, and i can't recall what i thought about your tone etcetera before that. hm.

when i try to be very very clear and very very careful in writing, in emails or on the net, i get terse. which other people have told me they read as rude. gah. i have a sneaking suspicion i am not catering enough to femininity, but i do try to say "listen, i'm trying to be clear and precise here. i am not trying to be rude. if i am coming off as rude, please let me know." because it's easier than getting into all those inadvertent arguments.

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

Usenet and discussion lists, chiefly: alt.polyamory, soc.sexuality.general, nearly every cooking group I've ever been a member of...

[tiger-spot.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say that you are mean, blunt, etc. online, but you can be mean, blunt, etc. online. Maybe you don't ever do that in person. Maybe you don't ever get into arguments about the topics you're inclined to be mean about with anyone who will stick around to listen to you chastise them in person (I sure don't).

I would say that the general tone I get from (my pitifully few) in-person interactions with you is about the same as that I get from your LJ posts, and some of your Usenet posts (I would say most, but I don't know that it's true; most of the ones I read, anyway). It's a generally positive, cheerful, uplifting sort of tone.

But you can also be both very blunt and deliberately hurtful (different things) online. Some cases of the first may be mistaken for the second, even if in-person sorts of non-verbal communication would make it clear that that's not what you meant. However, I would be very surprised if all the posts you've made that I see as deliberately hurtful were intended to have the generally positive tone described above, which I think of as more typical for you.

[papabearnz.livejournal.com]

(sorry for the duplicate posting... LJ has no edit function for comments)

[Datapoint]
You've never come across that way to me. I've always appreciated and respected your comments on things. We may not always agree but that's normal. After all - if everyone liked all the same things imagine the porridge shortage!
[/Datapoint]

[ailbhe]

But- you're *lovely* online!

[pantryslut.livejournal.com]

i have a sneaking suspicion i am not catering enough to femininity,

me too.

[pipyn.livejournal.com]

I think a lot of people expect the primary focus of communication to be making each other feel good. I can't speak on the culture of the cooking groups, but a lot of alt.poly seems to want to swim in a general sea of mutual ego stroking, and if anyone says something to the point, (not to be mean, not to be rude, but because they feel there's a serious point to be made) they lash out in a way I find unreasonable. They assume bad intentions, and therefore feel justified in having their own bad intenetions. They absolutely cannot see how their own stuff is feeding the kerfuffle. In my opinion.

Don't let it get to you too much.

[flippac.livejournal.com]

Heh, the added footnote appeared before I could get LJ to accept a comment pointing it out. Knowing you from elsewhere helps on usenet - in more immediate media there's a certain level of feedback that helps make things more obvious.

Datapoint

[nolly.livejournal.com]

Your LJ and our in person interactions are generally of the same tone. Sometimes, on Usenet, you do seem to me to be...hmmm...ruder, I'd say, than I usually experience you in person.

I have generally chalked this up to "something came up online that hit hot buttons I have not seen hit in person", but that is a pencilled explanation to resolve my cognitive dissonance, not something I have a great stake in.

[kightp.livejournal.com]

As I noted in e-mail to someone else who (IMO) is being mis-read in one of those newsgroup discussions, it's my experience that some people read short, concise, get-to-the-point posts as being blunt/rude/angry/uncaring.

I don't, but maybe that's my years as a journalist talking. I value concise, a lot, even when I don't always achieve it.

So it's probably not surprising that long before we met face-to-face I was swooning over your Usenet posts. And still do. If I don't jump in and defend you from people who I think are completely misunderstanding you, it's only because I don't think you *need* defending, and because that kind of thing only seems to escalate conflict.

The other thing I wrote to my other correspondent: In Usenet, as in much of life, don't mistake quantity for quality; the fact that some people insist on going on and on, repeatedly and at length, gnawing away at the same point does *not* equal a majority opinion, about you or anything else.

[vito-excalibur.livejournal.com]

You're honest. And you're willing to say the same thing to people's faces that you say behind their backs.

In my book that means you rock.

Not mean....

[staircasewriter.livejournal.com]

...but I'm pretty much scared silly of you anyway. That said, I will now resume my previous position ducked down behind the couch.

[hobbitbabe.livejournal.com]

My perception: You are blunt. You are not needlessly blunt. You are also so happy with your life and comfortable with yourself that your existence is a challenge to people who are not.

[bratman.livejournal.com]

I totally get your tone in USENET.

Then again, people misread me all the time so maybe it's because our styles are similar.

[redandfiery.livejournal.com]

Oh, I hear you there! I can come across pretty badly in text too. My last job, for a company with several branches across the UK, involved quite a bit of email communication; my blunt, to-the-point emails ruffled a lot of feathers and in fact got me reprimanded by the boss a couple of times. Then again, it was a pretty male-dominated company, and in my experience there's a sizeable minority of men who think any female who straight-talks and doesn't behave submissively is an appalling rude harridan, so...

[stitchinthyme.livejournal.com]

Some years ago I was quite shocked when someone I had just met in person but who had been on a mailing list with me for a while said she was scared of tangling with me online. I hadn't realized I came across differently in cyberspace than in person, either...I tend to be pretty blunt in both arenas, though I guess body language counts for a lot, because I'm not nearly as sure of myself as I may seem online. (Although, there are many, many things I wish I hadn't said, both in cyberspace and in person, even if they were true. Sometimes my mouth and fingers get ahead of my brain.) Anyway, I totally understand what you're saying.

If it matters, I've never thought of you as being mean or cruel online (and of course, I haven't met you in person, so I have nothing to compare to).

[aquaeri.livejournal.com]

I dunno if you're still collecting datapoints, or care about mine.

99% of the time, I don't find you remotely mean. I don't really get it when you do the "I'm such a big meanie" spiel, because you come across as quite average in that respect.

I did think the personal comments on alt.poly recently were mean, but you seem to think so too, since you apologised.

I've got further thoughts about the whole affair, but only if you care, and not in public.