serene: mailbox (Default)
[personal profile] serene
Note: I forbid you to read under the cut if your feelings will be hurt by my (and [livejournal.com profile] someotherguy's) mocking of the Spoons metaphor. I've been pretty vocal about not liking the metaphor, but I'm really not trying to keep you from liking it or anything.



[personal profile] serene: telling people has been more stressful than the thing itself today, if that makes sense.

I think it takes more social energy than I really had to spare.

"I'm out of spoooooooooons, I'm so speeeecial!"

;-)

ailbhe says "I'd come and hold your hand through the doctoring if I could. I'd send you a hand through the mail, but I doubt it would be comforting..."

[livejournal.com profile] someotherguy: you should pick a new random metaphoric object every day, especially when dealing with other people's drama.

"i'm sorry snowflake, but I can't help you today...I've run out paperclips."

"I'd love to listen to you whine about your sub-tertiary LDR, but I'm all out of dog polish."

"I wanted to post an encouraging comment here, but I already have seven dust-bunnies today. I'm sure you understand."

[personal profile] serene: *laugh*

that's awesome!!!!!


(I don't really forbid you -- I mean, how would I? -- but I encourage you to spare yourself the angst if the Spoons thing is important to you in any way, or if being mocked will hurt your feelings.)

Date: 2009-07-08 05:04 pm (UTC)
switchybitch: (Default)
From: [personal profile] switchybitch
All I have to say is...

... where can I buy some dog polish?

Date: 2009-07-09 05:18 am (UTC)
switchybitch: (Default)
From: [personal profile] switchybitch
I'm glad that subsequent commenters added some context to what the spoons metaphor actually IS, because I confess, I hadn't heard of it (about which I now feel guilty), was too ashamed to ask directly (about which I now feel even more guilty) but at least will confess to both (I'm eveidently in a confessional mood, in a strictly non-RC sense).

None of which detracts from my desire for dog polish...

Date: 2009-07-08 06:39 pm (UTC)
aquenigmatic: (Default)
From: [personal profile] aquenigmatic
Out of paper clips today...genius.
I've never really cared for that particular metaphor either except as a spontaneous explanation from the person who originally used it. Without any context, it actually makes it harder to explain what you're trying to say (for people who don't know).

Date: 2009-07-08 08:51 pm (UTC)
ailbhe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ailbhe
What am I doing in there?!

(I think the spoons metaphor works for the people for whom it works because spoons are concrete and energy is not, but I don't think it works well enough to want to use it around or explain it to people who don't already understand it.

Date: 2009-07-08 08:55 pm (UTC)
ailbhe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ailbhe
Oh, you quoted me to him! Now I understand.

Date: 2009-07-09 01:06 pm (UTC)
sashajwolf: photo of Blake with text: "reality is a dangerous concept" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sashajwolf
I think what the spoons metaphor conveys that "energy" doesn't is that, for many disabled people, they really are budgeting a more-or-less fixed quantity. "Energy" is too diffuse for that, precisely because any of the things you list may happen; for many disabled people, particularly those with chronic fatigue conditions, that just isn't the case. I guess your comment illustrates that not all disabled people are alike in that respect; my energy works far more the way the spoons metaphor suggests than the way you describe. I agree that if yours works as you describe, you probably shouldn't use the metaphor, because that would blur the distinction people like me are trying to make; I wish people who aren't disabled wouldn't use it either, for that reason.
Edited Date: 2009-07-09 01:07 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-07-09 01:55 pm (UTC)
sashajwolf: photo of Blake with text: "reality is a dangerous concept" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sashajwolf
It's not so much "I have ten discrete units of energy" as "once my energy's gone, it's gone, and it's really hard to make more." The usual things like a good night's sleep, relaxation, good food etc won't work for me if my energy levels were too low to start with, so I have to be try really, really hard never to run out in the first place.

Date: 2009-07-09 01:42 pm (UTC)
djm4: (Default)
From: [personal profile] djm4
I wish people who aren't disabled wouldn't use it either, for that reason.

I apologise, and will try to be stricter with myself about not using it.

Date: 2009-07-09 01:57 pm (UTC)
sashajwolf: photo of Blake with text: "reality is a dangerous concept" (Default)
From: [personal profile] sashajwolf
I didn't mean you. I know you don't identify as disabled or chronically ill, but I think you legitimately could, and from observation I think your energy does work the way the spoons metaphor describes.

Date: 2009-07-10 08:25 pm (UTC)
hel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] hel
*nod* yeah, this. For me, lately, spoons is a good metaphor because when I am out of energy, that is IT. It's gone, I've got nothing left until I get a good night's sleep.

Spoons is also a not-great metaphor for me lately, because I usually have no idea how MUCH energy I have for the day until it's getting low. One day I'll take the subway to and from work and barely notice it, another day I take the subway to work and then have to get a cab home because if I try to take the subway I'm going to collapse somewhere along the way. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to already be sitting down when it happens.

But yeah, having the tangible object representing the energy I have be spoons, instead of paperclips or pennies, is quite random, and amusing. It also led to a very sweet moment, when I asked Boyf to clean the catbox for me cos I didn't have the energy, and he said 'yes, you can have one of my spoons', handed me the spoon he'd used to eat dessert a few minutes before, and then cleaned the catbox.

Date: 2009-07-09 05:43 am (UTC)
baerana: Me, with a bi pride logo (pic#)
From: [personal profile] baerana
I have a bit mixed feelings about the spoons metaphor. It's kind of frou-frou for me, it feels kinda silly, new-age-y, yeah, kinda "special snowflake" - but on the other hand, I have found using a concrete object that people generally understand has made life a bit easier. Because with invisible diseases, "I don't have the energy for that" - sometimes people will argue with me. "Well, I don't have the energy for stuff, but I do it anyway." which kinda flummoxes me... But "I don't have the spoons for that" - can't really argue with that one. Be it spoons, paperclips, or alphabits.

What's interesting is, the feminist site, shakesville, uses teaspoons as a symbol as well (someone commented about feeling the fight against sexism was like emptying the ocean with a teaspoon which lead to "the silver teaspoon awards", etc.) so now spoons are all wrapped up in my mind as good, valuable things to have. anyway. :)

mock, mock, mockity mock

Date: 2009-07-09 07:35 pm (UTC)
piranha: giggling little devil with horns and tail (devilish)
From: [personal profile] piranha
i don't know what it is either, but they shut the fuck up, and that matters to me. somehow, some way, it shortcircuits their argument machinery. maybe just because they don't understand it and are too know-it-all to ask. that, too, works for me.

love the spoon thing. it comes closest to how my lack of energy feels (what you describe is really different from how it feels for me).

and we're all special snowflakes. deal. :)

Date: 2009-07-09 07:39 pm (UTC)
baerana: Me, with a bi pride logo (Default)
From: [personal profile] baerana
yeah, it isn't spoons per se

it's "energy" - non-concrete object - a thing some able-bodied people / people with no health issues think there is actually an endless supply of if the person "really wanted to do it"

v.

whatever concrete object that you can actually run out of once all have been spent. the fact that someone started using spoons and now a lot of people have heard that metaphor just means easier short hand

being a geek, i'd rather use something like energy bars from a video game. or mushrooms. but anyway :)
djm4: (Default)
From: [personal profile] djm4
I have friends who find the spoons metaphor useful, both when communicating with others and processing their thoughts themselves. That's all I need to know about it to take it seriously, although as it happens it's one I've found useful myself, too, although I'm aware that I'm not using it in its original context of chronic illness and generally include that caveat to people who don't know me.

Are you mocking it based on anything other than 'this isn't how I think, so it looks silly to me'? Because I try not to mock people on that basis, myself. It tends to be ... othering.

Just so you know, 'special' can be (among other things) a snide and insulting term for 'disabled' in my lexicon; not one I'd ever use, but one I hear. I suspect it isn't in yours, because you don't strike me as someone who'd use the term in relation to spoon theory if it was, but the way I would naturally read:

'I'm out of spoooooooooons, I'm so speeeecial!'

is deeply ablist. I'd be amazed to find that's how you meant it, though, so that really is a 'just so you know'.

re: spoon language mockery

Date: 2009-07-09 01:56 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] betonica
I love the spoon theory, but I'm not adverse to a little mockery - that was amusing :) I agree with someone above who said that the energy-in-discrete-bits was a helpful metaphor, and also that 'spoons' are indeed helpful when tackling the "but when I'm out of energy I do it anyway" (very) rude person. (Ahem. I used to be one of them. It's a good reminder for me.) Additionally, "energy" doesn't always convey physically drained *and* psychologically spent, which I think the spoon theory does. My local friends find the theory very helpful when talking to each other, perhaps for those reasons.

In the adding/changing random objects-as-metaphors, housemate has added "pumpkins" as of last night. I'm not sure I entirely grasped the details, but you can apparently lose spoons and gain pumpkins simultaneously, which is not good. I gathered that one gains pumpkins late at night when one should long ago have left the ball, glass slipper or no.

I worry a bit about the able-ist appropriation of the term (for which I am totally to blame, along with many others). On the one hand, I occasionally can refer someone to Christine's pdf, which I think is a very good thing. On the other, well. I'm not remotely disabled. I haven't resolved that bit, and don't know what I'll do about it.

In the mean time, though, go right ahead and make fun of my use of "spoons" - your posts are always a delight to read :)

Pumpkins

Date: 2009-07-10 06:03 am (UTC)
aquaeri: My nose is being washed by my cat (Default)
From: [personal profile] aquaeri
In my neighbourhood, you turn into a pumpkin when you get too tired to be properly functioning late at night. Or, in my case, because I did it so often, and before midnight, I turned into a variety of other vegetables, like zucchini or broccoli.

Date: 2009-07-09 07:58 pm (UTC)
baerana: Me, with a bi pride logo (Default)
From: [personal profile] baerana
btw, i both enjoyed your humor here, and have no objection to you or any other person, be they the healthiest person on the planet or anyone else, using the spoons metaphor to describe their energy level. it's useful shorthand, and i have no concerns about "able-bodied" people "appropriating" it. if my healthy friends are too tired for something and find that a useful way to tell me, then i love it for that as well.

*hugs*

Date: 2009-07-10 01:44 pm (UTC)
onceamy: A girl needs her chemicals. (Girl-and-Coffee-1)
From: [personal profile] onceamy
Heh, having seven dust bunnies would make sense to a person with multiple chemical sensitivity or severe allergies. But I digress, and need to collapse.

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