(no subject)

[serene]

What I wrote in response to pure_agnostic's post about the Golden Rule and personal agnosticism:

I have always thought the Golden Rule as written was just so much bullshit. And "do no harm" is nearly as useless, to me, for much the same reasons you state above -- how do I know for certain what will harm another? So my Golden Rule, as it were, is to live as ethical and harmless a life as I can manage, using my sense of reason and proportion as best I can -- after all, I have people's word for it that they *do* like to be treated with respect and compassion, and lots of datapoints as to what those things mean to different people, so while I can't read their minds, I can use my own mind to make reasonable guesses as to appropriate behavior. And when I fuck up, I admit it, attempt to make amends, and go about my life as best I can from there.

Comments

[pantryslut.livejournal.com]

However, I adore the Silver Rule, which is the negative formulation of the Golden Rule: "do not do unto others as you would not have done unto you."

[pure-agnostic.livejournal.com]

But maybe others like have it done unto them. Or at least don't mind.

That's the problem with the Golden Rule, Silver Rule, and "Do No Harm" Rule - they all presume knowledge of what others want. Unless I know the person really well, I can't assume that they want to be treated the same way I want to be treated.

[pantryslut.livejournal.com]

But maybe others like have it done unto them. Or at least don't mind.

So?

That's the problem with the Golden Rule, Silver Rule, and "Do No Harm" Rule - they all presume knowledge of what others want.

Not true in the least, in the case of the Silver Rule. The Silver Rule compels no action and makes no assumptions about what people want or don't want -- it says, "don't be a hypocrite. If you don't think it's a good thing, you shouldn't do it to other people." Works for me. YMMV, of course.

Unless I know the person really well, I can't assume that they want to be treated the same way I want to be treated.

That's why I don't like the Golden Rule.

[bayarts.livejournal.com]

Yeeeesssss!!!!!!!

[rmjwell.livejournal.com]

Are you maybe conflating the Godlen Rule --"do unto others as you would have others do unto you"-- with the Wiccan Rede --"An' it harm none, do as thou wilt"?

My own version of the Golden Rule is "Do unto others as others would have you do and as you are comfortable doing."

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

No, I'm not conflating them; they were both mentioned in the post I commented on. He said that rather than the Golden Rule, he preferred "Do no harm".

[lyrical1.livejournal.com]

I've always thought that the Girl Scout Law (http://www.girlscouts.org/program/gs_central/promise_law/) pretty much covered everything I needed to do to be a good person. Since it was ingrained in me as a child, I still keep it as a measuring stick for living life as an adult.

[pure-agnostic.livejournal.com]

Although the Girl Scout Law looks nice at first glance, I can't use it since it goes against my "personal agnosticism".

The Girl Scout Law:
I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.


Fair? There are 100 ways to determine what is fair, and none of them are fair.

Helpful? Caring? Same problem as the golden rule.

Respectful? This answer is copy-n-pasted from my original post: The standard answer is that everyone wants to be treated with respect and compassion. But words like "respect" can mean so many different things to different people. An overly abused word like "love" or "professional" - meaning so many different things that the overall meaning is now too vague and watered down to be useful.

Some of the other parts sound okay, but overall, I don't think the Girl Scout Law helps me much.

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

It works for me because it says "do my best to be" and I can live with that. I get to use my reason, my social sense, and my experience base to decide how best to try to be respectful and compassionate. I can live with that.

By the way, I'm liking this discussion. Thanks.

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I especially like "responsible for what I say and do" because it covers the thing I said about fucking up -- when I fuck up, it's my responsibility to own up to it and do something about it.

[nolly.livejournal.com]

I think, perhaps, the Golden Rule gets interpreted far more specifically than it was intended. I think what's meant is closer to the above: You want to be treated honestly, respectfully, compassionately; treat others honestly, respectfully, compassionately.

[sogwife.livejournal.com]

"how do I know for certain what will harm another?"

Which is precisely why I am not Wiccan, despite having spiritual practices largely based in Wicca. I feel it is arrogance, against both the person/being you are dealing with and whatever form of diety you may profess to follow, to assume that you know what is best for that person/being.