(no subject)

[serene]

Can't get Andrea Yates out of my head. Before today, I didn't know who she was.

If you know who she is, does she haunt you?

If you don't know who she is, don't google her unless you're up for a serious downer with a dose of feminist rage.

Comments

[calebbullen.livejournal.com]

What am I missing?

I don't get where feminism comes into play here.

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

Just one sentence among many: "In March of 2000, Andrea, on Rusty's urging, became pregnant and stopped taking the Haldol." This is *after* they were warned that more kids would return her to psychosis, and after the Haldol had given her an amazing turnaround in her condition.

[wild-irises.livejournal.com]

Whenever women engage in self-destructive behavior because of the social expectations that surround "good wife and mother," feminism comes into play.

In Andrea Yates' case, her behavior was not only self destructive. Enough said?

[wild-irises.livejournal.com]

Oh, she haunts me. Her name conjured up the whole story in an instant.

Do you want to reply to the previous commenter, or would you like someone else to do it for you?

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

Someone on my friendslist is thinking about her today, and it made me want to see who she was.

And I replied, but I would be really grateful to hear your take. I do see other comments from you in my inbox, though, so I'll go read them now.

*hugs and love*

[sagittaria.livejournal.com]

Yes, I know the name. I don't know how you missed hearing about that when it all happened, and of course there's been another blip recently because her ex-husband just remarried. She doesn't haunt me, but she certainly inspired some deep thinking a few years ago. The one good thing to come out of it is an increased awareness of postpartum depression and when help may be needed.

Minor, but critical, nitpick

[sistercoyote.livejournal.com]

From what I recall reading when the case was new, and based on the fact it was Haldol she was taken off, Andrea Yates did not suffer from post-partum depression. She suffered from post-partum psychosis, though it is often misreported as depression in the mass media.

So, yeah. It's nice to see more awareness of ppd - I just wish that ppp was getting the same play.

[twostepsfwd.livejournal.com]

Yes. I can't get her off my mind today.

[twostepsfwd.livejournal.com]

Yes. I can't get her off my mind today. It makes me really sad, though I think the woman who threw her babies into the bay makes me sadder for some reason.

[ailbhe]

"Rusty decided" that they were going to live on a *bus* with *how* many children?

"Rusty urged" her to stop taking her meds and get pregnant again?

Grrr.

[snippy]

She doesn't haunt me, largely because I see her as only one example of a longterm widespread problem.

[wordweaverlynn.livejournal.com]

She haunts me for a number of reasons. Her madness, her despair, the guilt she'll bear for the rest of her life.

It's the religious angle that gets me. She was trying to be -- and Rusty was urging her to be -- the perfect fundamentalist Christian wife and mother. This ideal is perky and energetic, and she bears a quiverful of children, homeschools them all, keeps her house perfectly (maybe with the help of the older girls), sews smashing designer clothes for herself and adorable matching outfits for the wee ones, raises and preserves all their own food, runs a women's Bible study group (not for men, since it's not proper for women to teach their betters), all while being *religiously* submissive to her husband because Jesus wants it that way. All without the aid of methamphetamines or household help. Does she have a job? "Oh no. I would never *work*."

It's not that nobody can do it. Especially if she wants to do it, doesn't have an outside job, does have a lot of physical energy, loves kids, has no mental illnesses, has an excellent support system, and is talented at housework, gardening, and needlework. I've known women who did it and loved it.

But I've also known women who were broken by it, and kids who suffered from it, and women who, like me, wanted something else and still ache sometimes because I can never ever force myself into that mold. And Andrea Yates tried, and her children died because fundamentalists think there's only one way for a woman to live.

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

I think you have some good points, but I also think that she would probably have had some problems even with fewer children. From what I've read, she had suicide attempts after at least one other child, so it wasn't just the number of kids that broke her. It was biochemical and hormonal -- the difference was that her husband was so intent on "being fruitful and multiplying" he overlooked his wife's psychiatric problems and the result was tragedy.

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

Yes, I know who she is. (http://madameverdi.blogspot.com/2006/06/andrea-yates-and-me.html)

I haven't googled her, and I guess the retrial verdict must have come back guilty. Fuckers.

[serenejournal.livejournal.com]

Not guilty, actually.

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

Now I have googled her, and see that she was found not guilty by reason of insanity. American justice prevailed.

She still will spend probably the rest of her life in a secure facility -- or at least a large chunk of it -- but it will be a facility where she can get help.

[leback.livejournal.com]

Gosh, what a thing to come across all at once when you're not already familiar with the story. :-( I think I was a little too young (by which I really mean too inexperienced) when it first hit the news to really grasp all the nuances of what it was about, so it's one of those things that is not so much haunting for me, as just part of the background landscape of the world I live in.

[pir-anha.livejournal.com]

today is a fine day for blaming christian idiocy.

[patgreene.livejournal.com]

I think identifying this as "Christian idiocy" is going a bit far; even the most conservative Christians I know would not support taking a psychotic woman off her meds. Of course, there are fringe elements out there, and Rusty Yates may well have been part of that.

[dbubley.livejournal.com]

At the beginning there was some thought of charging the husband as well, but I think they dropped the idea because they weren't sure there was enough to prosecute him. The latest trial has been broadcast on Court TV.

He's an ass who is just going to walk away and start a new life with a new wife and probably have more kids. Personally, I don't think he should ever be allowed to have children in his care, but it doesn't work that way.
We worry about pedophiles, but he's "just" a neglectful father. He's a well-educated man, with a professional sort of job. One wonders how he'd be treated had he been poor ot black, or both.

I doubt that Andrea Yates will ever be "cured." If it were me, and I stopped being crazy long enough to understand what I'd done, I'd immediately pray for crazy to return. I even wonder if curing her would be a "good" thing to do, for her, I mean.

It makes me sad, but it doesn't haunt me. She "thought" she was doing good. There are just too many stories where the perpetrator knew he (sometimes she) was up to no good and relished the thought. They haunt me.
As creepy as her story is, I think of Andrea Yates more like an accident, an awful, terrible, horrible accident. One that her husband could have prevented. In a way, she was as much of a victim as her children. I don't think she even wanted to be the one "behind the wheel." But she was.

If it had been me, a death sentence, swiftly carried out, would have been merciful.

[ljgeoff.livejournal.com]

I remember, at the time, thinking that if I were Andrea, that's what I'd want.

[tesseract26.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes. One of the things I do for Texas NOW is press. I have spent much of my day writing statements, double-checking my PPD/PPP stats, and coordinating interviews for the former state president, who's from Houston and has been involved in this case since the first trial. I had to prep her to do Fox radio - so basically I had to arm her against all the stupid 'unnatural mother' crap (missing the point much?) and talk to scary people.

I'm really, really tired.

I'm not sure what one would charge Rusty Yates with. They were trying to get help within the bounds of their beliefs. He's not a horrible person. He took her to shrinks. He was trying to get his mom to help with child care. He's morally culpable for something. I'm just not sure what. A lot of folks are pissed about him re-marrying; I can't muster the energy. With their children gone, do they have a hell of a lot of reason to stay together? How do you stay with someone who, even if desperately ill, is still the one who drowned your children?

Andrea is a very sick woman. I'm glad she'll get the help she needs. I wish someone would do some sort of mass public education about what "insane" means in a legal context so I could stop listening to all this misogynist bullshit about how the death penalty is too good for her. Bleah.

[inflectionpoint.livejournal.com]

Hmmm.... As for what Rusty could have done...if your religious beliefs cause you to do something that is killing another person, that might be time to try and find a different set of religious beliefs.

Rusty could have gotten a vasectomy. Or stopped having sex with her. Or not gotten in the way of her getting birth control. Or any of a dozen things. He chose not to. If he hadn't kept impregnating her, she would not have developed the post partum psychosis that she did.

If he had been willing to consider her health and well being in objective terms, and make those more important than his religious beliefs, those children might still be alive today. And Andrea might have a life of her own.

It's not a popular thing for me to say, but this wouldn't have happened if Rusty had been willing to stop impregnating his wife. I wish I knew how to say that clearly and concisely enough to make it a media sound bite. The things that happened to Andrea are the sorts of things that legalized birth control was supposed to free women of in this country. To talk about what Andrea did without talking about how Rusty valued impregnating his wife more than his wife's life and the life of the children they already had is missing so much of the point.

I'm sorry, but I don't know how to educate men that they don't have the right to keep on making women pregnant as much as they want. I don't know how to teach people that women are people. I deeply wish I did.

[inflectionpoint.livejournal.com]

She doesn't haunt me. But Rusty Yates does.

He knew what the pregnancies were doing to her - he must have seen that they were destroying her. Or if he didn't see it, it was by willfully blinding himself to that because his religion was more important to him than his spouse's health and humanity. He kept right on fucking her and he kept right on impregnating her. In my opinion, he probably would have fucked her to death if he hadn't been stopped by the inconvenient fact that when she was sent to prison she was suddenly out of his reach. Now that he's remarried, he's got another woman to destroy. I hope she gets away from him in time.

I consider him guilty in the deaths of those children and I consider him guilty of attempted murder of Andrea.

That sort of be fruitful and multiply attitude is common among fundamentalists, but sadly enough it is also more widespread and shows up in other sects as well. My family was Catholic, and I grew up with a mother who did it to herself - she had been indoctrinated since childhood that the only things that gave her worth were legal marriage to an opposite sex partner and children. Lots of children, whether she wanted them or not. Whether she could care for them and herself or not. And sadly for all of us, she believed that filth. I weep for the person she might have been if she had been taught that women were people too, and that she could do whatever she wanted to and was best at with her life. Being surrounded by the filth that was preached to her, she never stood a chance. She would have had to be either crazy or desparate to get away from it and have a life of her own on her own terms.

And noone should have to fight so hard or leave their whole family just to have a life of their own. Things like this and toxic beliefs like those espoused by Rusty, and those which Andrea may never have had a chance to get away from make me want to do everything I can to fight for women and for queers and those of us who do not wish to breed. At the very least, I can keep my house a safe house for people.

I'm still sad and angry about the whole horrid thing. This didn't have to happen. And I hope so hard that it's not happening around me now, or that if it is, that I will see it and be able to help the next Andrea.